Normally I don’t reshare episodes where I have been interviewed, but in Podcasting for Impact™ I teach my students how to be better interviewers, and Kieran blew me away with his skills! He pulled more out of me about my personal story than anyone has ever managed to do, including super tangible, actionable steps you can hopefully utilize in your own life.
We talk about:
This is my favourite interview I’ve ever done! Kieran is just one of the most beautiful souls I’ve ever met, and being interviewed by him was an incredible experience.
Follow the links below to find Kieran, and listen to me interview him.
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Hey there, welcome back to the Room to Grow Podcast. This is a special bonus episode of a podcast interview that I was interviewed on on my friend Kieran’s podcast, The Pocket Coach, so I’ve never done this before. I’ve actually been interviewed for a huge number of podcasts but I have never re-shared any of them on my own podcast here on Room to Grow. But I teach people, I teach my students how to become better interviewers. And Kiran absolutely blew me away with his abilities as an interviewer to pull so much information out of me. So Kieran wanted to learn more about my personal story. Some of the lessons that I pulled from that and more about the infidelity that I have spoken about quite openly, and I ended up sharing far more on this episode with him than I have anywhere else. Even with all the other interviews I’ve done and everything else, Kieran just has this incredible ability to not only listen, but to ask really fantastic questions and I am such a sucker for a really good question. So I wanted to be able to share this with you guys. And I was just so honored that Kieran invited me on. As well, today on the Room to Grow Podcast episode 203 you can also catch Kieran being interviewed by me and we have a really incredible discussion around some very heavy topics, some really taboo issues that Kieran has been kind enough and gracious enough to be very open about. I think that it’s really important to create more change around some of those areas. So I’m so grateful to Kieran for having me on. You can also catch this episode the same episode over on his podcast, The Pocket Coach, it originally aired on April 12 2020. Please share this episode with someone that you think needs to hear it.
What’s going on guys, Kieran Hedley here from The Pocket Coach Podcast. So I’m actually here with a brand new friend Emily Gough. She came to my birthday party dinner last night so you know, she’s special.
I did feel very special!
There you go. And literally the moment I met her, she has such an energy about her, I literally said to my friend after I met her, she has done some work. Like that’s literally what I said, on the bike ride home after dinner. And it was just so clear that you’ve done that work. And it was so impressive to see how genuinely the bountiful laugh that you have came through. It’s just like, it reverberates everywhere. And it just rocks, but it’s so genuine. It’s not coming from a ‘Oh, look at me, I need the attention’. It’s genuine. And that goes show and that’s why I said, she’s done so much work. So she is a podcast coach. I’ve actually never met a podcast coach. And her podcast Room to Grow has done incredibly well. It’s based around mental health and with a very key aspect as to what she’s been through herself. So I’m very excited to actually introduce Emily Gough and introduce the opportunity to listen to a story as to how she overcame something that unfortunately is more common than what people think. But it’s very, very traumatic and it’s just very powerful story. So, without further ado, Hello Emily!
Hi, thank you for having me. And quite the introduction. I’m honored.
Right. So please introduce a little bit more about your podcast so the audience can hear before we get into it just so people have a good feel of exactly what you do.
Yeah, so the podcast is really about mental health, relationships, kind of lifestyle stuff. It’s grown and evolved with me, hence the Room To Grow name. And there’s also aspects of it I also do business episodes. So where it’s kind of focused more on building a business and podcasting and stuff like that, but I kind of have like two audiences. Like I have people come to me for both and then I have people who come to me for one or the other. So there’s a lot of a lot of like, personal growth type of stuff on it. Yeah.
Yeah. And you made top 200?
Yeah, it often consistently hits the top 200 on Apple for mental health, it’s main category. Yeah it still blows me away
So that really speaks volumes about a message because people clearly need to resonate with that, in order for that to be possible. So, without further ado, I want to dive deeper into a little bit more about the podcast and specifically an episode that stood out to me. I want you to repeat the name because I don’t want to get it wrong.
Okay. Yeah. So it’s Episode 117. And it’s The Nine Year Affair: Lessons in Infidelity.
Unknown Speaker 5:26
And I think that speaks volumes ALONE, litereally, the 9 year affair, and I want to bring a highlight of that, if it’s okay with you, if you can bring in a little bit of that story, a snippet of that story? Because that’s gonna lead us into exactly where we’re gonna go with this podcast. So do you mind just starting from when you started to realize, well, the situation…
When I got punched in the face with it ?
a little bit more about maybe a background of the relationship. And then yeah, leading to that.
Yeah. So my partner and I had been together for nine years, we had a really great relationship by most people’s standards, even by our own standards, as far as I could tell. It was kind of one of those relationships where people would look at us and there were people who kind of put us a little bit up on a pedestal, kind of the, everyone often will have those couples in your life where you want to be more like that couple, where you see them doing the work or doing really good things and treating each other really well. We were kind of that couple to a lot of people. And then things had started to get a little bit odd in the last six months or so of the relationship. He was bailing on some things, but I kept being told that things would change and it seemed like relatively basic things like just spending more time together. That’s kind of one of my love languages is quality time and he was gone a lot. He was working like really late hours. Nothing super a-typical overall, but it was adding up and I just couldn’t really understand what was happening. We had decided to get married within six or so months and he kept putting off the proposal, I would literally get told I’m proposing this week and it wouldn’t happen. And I was just, I was so confused because he was telling me that this is what he wanted. We were having what I believe to be very open, clear communication about it. And he would say, hands down that that was what he wanted. And okay, so I’m being told one thing, but then something else, like these pieces aren’t lining up and I couldn’t really understand what was going on.
So of course, things weren’t adding up but while things weren’t adding up what was going on within you?
I was getting increasingly anxious to the point, I’ve always struggled within that relationship. Sometimes I’m not sure exactly when my anxiety began, because I think that to some degree, a lot of us just tend to get more anxious as we get older. That certainly isn’t like a blanket statement, but I think that that can happen, you know, you have more responsibilities, you have more things coming up. So when he and I started dating, I was in my early 20s, I guess 20,22 23. So I probably just wasn’t as anxious, I was never really an anxious person at that point to begin with. So then I’m like, Okay, how much of that? how much of my increasing anxiety was tied to him? And how much of it was just me and my own stuff? And I would have these questions come up sometimes, or there’d be little snippets of situations where I would question if I trusted him and I would say to myself, well, you either trust him or you don’t. So I chose to trust him because a lot of times I would just chalk any of those situations up to my own insecurities. And I would think, Okay, this must just be me. I have something to work on. It’s shining a light on something that I need to figure out. This isn’t about him
but not everyone realizes that so what was key for you to help you start to realize those things within that relationship?
Um, part of it was that if I brought up certain things, I think occasionally he would kind of turn it around on me. And I would agree with him. Because that’s, you know, that’s what good couples do just in terms of shining a light, maybe in the dark places and the other person on things that need to be worked on whether we want to hear it or not. Sometimes that’s going to happen. So in some ways, I was appreciated that about him because it really forced me to grow as a person and to have those uncomfortable conversations where I would be like, okay, I, you’re right, this probably is coming from me and old trust issues from from old boyfriends who had not treated me well, and all those things. So I clearly need to work on this. And I think after, you know, we’ve just a couple of those conversations. I would just kind of jump to the conclusion of it being me anyway, without him even being involved in that conversation. And a lot of us do need to work on those things, right, that that didn’t seem out of the realm. I mean, a lot of it we all have work to do. We all have healing to do all the time in various areas. And it’s so
So was this a two way street? whereas I think that you should work on this and vice versa?
Yeah. Yeah. To some degree.
Because of course, it can be quite fearsome for someone to initiate that sort of statement of like, hey I don’t want to trigger you. But yeah,
Well, I would always back off a little bit, because one of the issues that we would have would be he had an ex girlfriend who would keep popping up every year, maybe every two years, like once in a while, and I couldn’t understand why. I couldn’t figure it out. We would have entire conversations, but she was our biggest trigger point within our entire relationship. It got to a point where we didn’t even really like saying her name, because it held so much old hurt for us that it was a difficult conversation to have. And he would turn it around on me sometimes and he would say ‘Do you trust me?’, because he’d say, ‘if you don’t trust me, we don’t have a relationship’. And again, I agreed with him because I think that’s true. You can’t have a good relationship without trust and I would think about it and then I would pose a question to myself. Do you trust him or don’t you? Like No, I do trust him because look at all these other amazing things he does for me and for the relationship and how much work he puts into the relationship. This is not a man who is out there fucking around. That’s not how this is coming across. Yeah.
Wow. Okay, yeah. And all of a sudden, you had the punch in the face.
I had the punch in the face. Yeah. Not literal. Not literal, but I felt like it. Um, yeah, I always feel like this is like a dark and stormy night. Christmas eve of 2018, I had received a bunch of DMS under a fake account on Instagram. And it had actually been sent a few days before Christmas Eve, but I hadn’t seen them. I hadn’t been on Instagram at all over the weekend, I had turned off all social media. Come back online and there’s this fake account that has been created by this ex girlfriend who kept coming up over the years. And it’s dozens of screenshots of text messages between her and my partner. She informed me that she had photos if I wanted to see more as well. She was telling me all these things that have been going on for the previous nine years, eight – nine years
she knew all about you.
Yes, she knew all about me and as soon as I saw this account, this account had also been asking weird questions on my Instagram posts the last couple of months. There had been another fake account that I had found out about six months earlier that had been her and I just couldn’t understand it. I was like how has it been almost a decade and this girl hasn’t moved on and she would be painted as ‘…crazy, obsessive, can’t get over me…’ All these different things really painted like this really sad human who can’t function without him. And even though he was telling me that he had no actual involvement with her whatsoever, that he wasn’t even speaking to her, that was how she was being painted to me. And when she popped up the six months prior that was again laid out for me that story. And I was having a hard time believing it at that point, because I thought, I don’t really know anyone who would hang on to an old relationship like this for 10, like nearly 10 years without being fed something.
It seemed really off and my intuition was throwing up all kinds of red flags. We had already been seeing a couples counselor for months prior to that. So we took that situation to her.
Yeah. And was that because of the anxiety?
yeah, it was kind of like a more maintenance type of like, you know, we’ve been together a really long time and there’s work to do because there’s always work to do. And he had actually really pushed that a lot. There were points where I was like, you know, I feel like we’re pretty good. Should we keep going? He’s like, No, I want to go. Okay, so we keep going. So I, this other situation we took that she’s like, you know, I feel like you’re being gaslighted by this girl doesn’t really make sense. And to my therapist’s credit, she’s very bright, very intelligent, I still see her on a personal level. So she was being, kind of having the wool pulled over her eyes as well. So then I go back to Christmas Eve, I feel like I’m telling things that order but back to Christmas Eve, get all these messages. Things are being denied to me left, right and center. And I start going through his email with permission. He and I were sitting together going through his email, a couple emails where he’s, you know, telling her that he loved her, one point when we were on vacation.
How did you get to this point where you actually had his permission to go on to the day?
Well, I held up these messages about it. Yeah. And I held up these messages and he didn’t really know what to say. And I said, pull up your email right now. We’re kind of at the point where you don’t get to say and listen, you pull up your email, I said pull up your phone records, the whole situation. And just there was like a three hour phone call to her one day, like a few days earlier. He’d gone to a wedding with her and stayed overnight at her house just a couple weeks prior. And I remembered that night quite clearly because he told me he was staying overnight with some buddies for a guys Christmas party, like it was just one thing after another. I’d gone to Florida for a business conference a month and a half earlier. And he had spent four days at her house. When I came back from that business conference, there were some dirty dishes out in the kitchen when I left, and when I came back, every single dish was still in the exact same place and literally nothing had moved, and I said, What have you eaten for 4 days? Like, I didn’t really care if I came back to sink full of dirty dishes. I was just like, nothing had, not a single fork had moved. And he said that he had just kept washing the same dish and whatever and that he’d eaten out a lot, which didn’t surprise me, okay, fine, you know, leave man to his own devices he often he’ll just eat out right? Not all the time. But this is when people say to me, did you see the signs? hindsight is always 2020 you always see the signs when you’re looking back. But when you’re living it, it’s very different because the things that were being told to me, were still logical, even though I was getting these huge hits of something is off. And I would actually say to him, sometimes flat out I said, I feel like I’m not getting the full story. And he would say, I don’t know what to tell you. Like I don’t know what else to tell you this. This is what happened.
Right? Look straight to your face as well.
then I will come back to the question: you either trust him or you don’t. Okay, I am going to trust him. And I don’t regret that because I will always prefer to be someone who trusts then someone who doesn’t trust at all, because that’s an incredibly sad way to live.
Yeah. it’s beautiful you’re still able to take that away even after this experience.
Yeah. Because I think that there are a lot of people out there who will go through something like this. And it will, they’ll never want to trust anybody. And I understand that instinct. I absolutely understand that instinct. But how do you want to live your life is what it has to come down to. So the rest of the punch in the face came like a few hours later when she came banging down our door at eight o’clock on Christmas Eve. And continued to verbally lay out all kinds of things that I had never heard before. But at this point,
Was he there with you?
Yeah. So it was literally three of us standing with all within about two feet of each other because I, she was, like it was, it was a nightmare. She was standing like yelling in the driveway at us. Then I said, Fine, just come in. My partner at the time was like, really? We’re doing this? I was like, what the fuck else do you want to do? I’m not gonna continue to have her yell in the street. So yeah, I invited her in for, I almost have blackouts about how long it was. I don’t think it was more than 15 minutes. In fact, I’m almost certain of it. But it could have also been only five. I don’t really remember. But I, I just was agreeing with everything she was saying when she would say, Did you know this? Or did you know this? And I just kept saying yes, because I didn’t. I didn’t know what else to say. And I also didn’t want to give up my power of, you know more than me. So I continued to agree, got her out of the house. We closed the door and he looked at me and he said, I think I just gave you your first book. That’s true. Yeah. I was shockingly calm throughout this. I have always been someone who’s been a bit of a hothead and kind of fiery temper, shockingly calm, and I remember thinking to myself, am I maturing? Is that what’s happening? Yeah, yeah.
Mature and just evolved
Just evolved like in an instance. Yeah,
yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what do you think allowed you in that moment to be calm and clear?
I think it was a largely pure shock, like actual, you know, when they talk about people going in shock after a car accident or something where it’s the actual physical, emotional and mental reaction of true shock, I think that was it, because I couldn’t, I couldn’t physically wrap my head around the fact that this man who had been, in a lot of ways I had held up as kind of the ultimate partner and a lot of other people had kind of held him up as the ultimate partner, was capable of doing this. Yeah, like this was a completely different life to some degree, and they hadn’t been together the entire time. It had been on and off and don’t make any mistake, she had been lied to just as much or more than I had been, but He, I mean for anyone that wants to listen to more details I do go into more in that one episode of my podcast, so I’m sure you can link it up. But he had been trying to tell her for the previous six months that we were broken up, that I was blocking the sale of our house, that I wasn’t letting our real estate agent in. Meanwhile, I was just sitting there living my life, not knowing that anything was happening, she had been following me, she’d been following me online under various fake accounts, stalking me and listening to every podcast. This was all displayed like in the text messages between them. She’d been driving by our home and he would see her sometimes through the window. They would have a text conversation while he and I were making dinner together. It’s just yeah, blindsided would be putting it mildly.
Yeah. It was like there were two walls on either side of your vision. So you won’t be able to see right nor left or straight ahead where it was wanting you to look?
Yes. And then there were other details that came up later like finding out about the secret house 170 meters from our driveway like it. It’s still mind blowing to me. I’ve had so many moments, right from the very beginning of thinking, when did my life become a movie? Like this is not what I signed up for. I’m a very straight to the point, direct, non dramatic person. And I would lie in bed some nights going, how did my life turn into this? I don’t understand how this has happened.
Did you start creating conclusions as to maybe what created the situation that unfolded?
Because of course at the end of the day I’m sure you’ve made some assumptions.
Of course it will. And that I think that whenever you have a really significant situation like this, a lot of times it will shine a light on something that you need to heal. And something that somebody said to me was ‘What is it that is missing in you?’ or ‘Why did you tolerate being in a relationship with someone who lied to you?’ And I still don’t have the answer to that question, because it’s something I’m still working on. Because I didn’t know I was being lied to. But at the same time, my gut instinct was screaming at me. Because within days of ending this relationship, my anxiety lifted completely. I was heartbroken. I could barely even move and I didn’t even eat anything for two weeks, but my anxiety lifted. And that was very fascinating, because I didn’t realize just how much it had been crippling me until it was gone. And then I thought, Oh, my God, I feel like a different person. So that was really, really fascinating. My periods even regulated for the first time in years.
This says a lot about the stress that you were under. Yeah, this is um, I work with a lot of woman and this is actually something that’s very, a very big issue is actually irregular periods.
Yeah, and I had no idea the stress that I was under until I told it to pack up and leave. Literally! and when he left the anxiety left with him, not to say that I don’t still get anxious. I absolutely do. I think we all do. But that heavy, constant anxiety that was with me all the time it lifted.
I really, really want to acknowledge two things, two beautiful things. You’ve said that and really highlight them. The first one is, I’m still working on it. That was so incredible, because someone there has come so far to be able to say that speaks volumes to those that are listening, to those that may be wanting to enter that field of that space of learning to heal, or maybe those that have come very far and have in their mind that they’re healed. And this is something that I really like to come away from. There’s no healed right now.
Right? No human is healed.
Especially because I’m sorry, I just interrupted you for a quick sec. I think that some people look at the fact that like, you and I are recording this only a year later, and I came out with a lot of this only eight months after it happened. And I think a lot of people look at me and people have actually said to me, you know, how have you done this so fast? Like, how have you come through this so fast. And I said, but I’m still in it. Like, I’m still doing the work. I’m not fully 100% healed, I can talk about without crying, I can, you know, like, discuss it openly. And I have done a lot of work to get to this point, there’s still more to do, there’s because there’s always going to be more to do, you’re never going to hit the point of just being done with the work. There’s always going to be more things coming up, you’ll get into another relationship that shines a light on something else that needs to be addressed, there’s always gonna be more
This is so vital because at the end of the day, especially as a human being, if I hit a ceiling, I’m going to figure out a way to break through the ceiling. I’m going to be very, I’m going to feel very insignificant. I’m going to feel like I’m not growing the same pace as someone else. And therefore I’m going to create a sense of unworthiness within myself. And I’ve done this so many times, but it’s something that I allowed my ego to enter, and therefore inhibiting my growth, for example, when it came to, in certain relationships, or when it came to in certain sports situations, or when it came to just anything, really, where I thought that if I allowed my ego to take place to make myself feel better about a situation, then it actually inhibited my ability to grow, because I wasn’t looking at the issue authentically. Yeah, I mean, so you said that’s why I said you said it perfectly. Because the fact that you’ve been able to come so far, yet still be able to acknowledge that no, I’m still working on anxiety. I’m still healing from the situation even though I’ve actually been able to host a podcast that is in the top 200 of mental health many times, and being able to say that in an authentic way, many people, especially people, like coaches, and in their own right. Can feel a sense of worry about being authentic about those sort of things because they might be the worry of, well, these people want to work with me if I’m authentic about, man, I still struggle. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if I end up being imperfect, almost perfect, right, then people will want to work with me. But I’ve definitely found that to be not the case.
I talk about that a lot sometimes, too, because I think that a lot of times people, especially in the online space and stuff, don’t want to be seen as less than. A lot of people will make the mistake. This could be argued even from an actual business standpoint of putting themselves on the pedestal, and then you’re no longer relatable, because people can’t, people can’t connect to you up on the pedestal. They need to see that you’re human. And they need to understand that you struggle too, that you have your own issues that you’re dealing with, that you are still figuring things out. When you’re talking down at people, they’re not going to be able to connect with you.
Yeah, that’s huge. Yeah, I actually met a girl yesterday, who I met after my talk. She came to me and wanted to speak about the anxiety and loneliness, and when I met with her, it was just literally about 45 minutes of her just crying and coming to realizations of like, so I’m allowed to feel sad. So I’m allowed to feel like because it’s almost like she had created this idea in her head because her friends have been like, you look so happy now like, you know, you’re enjoying life, you’re in Bali, or sort of thing. And it’s almost like she created this idea that she wasn’t allowed to feel sad. Because, yeah, so yeah, so definitely inhibited her ability to actually work on the things that she actually came here intending to work on. Yeah. So it was all of a sudden this like, understanding of like, Oh, I’m actually allowed to be low. I’m actually allowed to be sad. I’m actually allowed to experience loneliness.
I talk about that a lot, too. Because even when I went back to Canada at Christmas, even people close to me were, and I was shocked by this, were saying, Oh, you know, you look so happy every single day on Instagram stories. I’m like, okay, just because I don’t post myself on Instagram Stories crying, doesn’t mean, because there have to be boundaries to and I also…This is always kind of a dance is showing up in a really genuine way, while also not wanting to bring negative energy and bring other people down, because I can be having a really shit day, but I don’t want to project that onto somebody else. So I think that that’s something that all of us struggle with on a basically daily basis, whether you have, you know, an online presence or whatever, it’s, that’s why a lot of people don’t seek help, because they don’t want to bring somebody else down. Exactly. Yeah. So you don’t want to be a burden on somebody else. You don’t want to like drag drag down their day or whatever. And that’s kind of something I deal with too, because on Instagram Stories like I’ll show up bubbly and whatever, and that is me like, yeah, people will meet me and they’re like you are exactly how you show up. But I can also have days where I don’t really even feel like getting out of bed and I’m having such a hard time but I’m not gonna Instagram story from bed like Hey guys, I’m crying today. It’s not gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, I can show up and say, you know, I’m having kind of a tough time right now and I have but I’m not going to, I think that sometimes we need to still protect our vulnerability to some degree when it comes to posting things socially. I wouldn’t be open because we need to still protect like that sacred part of ourselves to like to just have something for either just ourselves and or just our loved ones like the people in our closest inner circle that doesn’t you don’t need to share some of that social media.
Yeah, like from my end, especially because I bring up a story around depression into the light so I’ll definitely talk about those experiences where I might be, you know, lying in my bed like, Hey guys, from my bed. But on the other end there is a what you just pointed out about the family experiences is actually quite a few, quite a lot of tight knit things within my family that wouldn’t be right for me to actually project that into the world. So yeah, that’s that’s definitely I completely agree. And I just really want to highlight that for the people listening that just because the coach or the self love guru or whatever, on Instagram or on even on podcast or whatever you’re following, especially Tick Tock now, right? I’m jumping on that wagon
I still need to get on board. I have an account, but I don’t know what to do with it
I’ve posted a few bubble videos. Is the fact that whether it’s them being authentic or inauthentic, there’s always going to be something in the background that isn’t going to be showing completely at the end of the day. I don’t project my entire 15 hours to 18 hours, I’m actually awake onto Instagram, so there’s a lot of things that occur that bring up stress, bring up anxiety, bring me down a little bit and fluctuate an emotion. I might go a little bit crazy, right? These things are gonna happen on a frequent or infrequent basis. Yeah. And this is, like I’m a human being. It happens. So it’s understanding that this is completely normal. So I think that’s really beautiful that you’re willing to speak about that. Yeah. especially coming from the experience that you’ve had. So I actually want to sort of bring that back round. So I know we sort of went on a detour. So I want to bring that back to now, talking about that authenticity, and you are clearly obviously needing to be authentic with yourself in order to be able to grow through the experience that you’ve had. So on the topic of authenticity, what shines for you within yourself, post situation, post experience, what shines through within yourself what came up within yourself?
Oh, that’s a good question. Um, I think that I, particularly once I got out from the geographical constraints of that situation, left Canada to come to Bali. But that wasn’t for about six months because we had a house together. We did some renovations on the house, we sold the house. So it wasn’t until, I had to wait until all that was done before I could leave. And when I left, um, it kind of felt as though the fog was lifting. And I felt more like myself than I had felt like in years. And I didn’t, again, I didn’t know that was missing. Like you don’t know that something is missing until either it’s gone, or until something else changes to really highlight like what you’ve been ignoring. And I had been ignoring that I had been pushing down a lot of myself to be the person that I needed to be in that relationship, and that had involved cutting out parts of me to make the relationship survive.
And did you almost feel like you normalized that for yourself?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I completely normalized it, that was, and I think all of us do that, you create your own normal. And we all will then have those moments of thinking that that’s normal and it’s not until something comes in and shakes it up, or we step up and step out of our comfort zone into something new. It’s like, wow, there’s this whole other part of me this whole other side of me that I didn’t even know was there. It was there all along. We just didn’t allow it to come through to shine.
Unknown Speaker 33:44
Yeah, okay. Now, what shifted during this experience? What do you think shifted during this experience and what allowed for those shifts after the experience?
Unknown Speaker 33:57
So do you mean like more immediately afterwards or kind of as I was stepping in
More immediately afterwards, because I wanted to sort of talk to the people that might be going through a situation, might be experiencing some sort of trauma in some sort of way. What did you do that might highlight for others to sort of look at as maybe inspiration maybe to bring some ideas in terms of maybe what you started to work on within yourself what you did, practically, that allowed you to start shifting some of those things.
One thing that I thought of right away was this is not the end of the book. This is like chapter 10 of 68. Like there’s, there’s so much more to go. Really recognizing that this feeling wasn’t going to last forever, that I wasn’t going to feel that way forever. And it’s not always as easy as booking a plane ticket to Bali. So you know, you have something to look forward to in six months, right? I tell people you know, book something like tomorrow or the next day or next week that you can look forward to you with a friend or something like that, so that you’ve got something to kind of anchor you and give you a little bit of that light at the end of the tunnel. Because when, when everything feels so dark and heavy, it’s very difficult to step out from under that weight and you have to have something on the calendar to look forward to. And it doesn’t have to be spending a ton of money or booking a trip around the world, that simply isn’t realistic for everyone. So you have to work within your means and figure out what’s going to be possible for you, and start to find some things that are going to excite you and light you up a little, even if it’s just a spark at first.
Yeah, awesome. So that gave you some sense of momentum, almost like a platform to stand on so you can start walking forward. Now as you start to walk forward now that you’ve got a platform, what practical actions did you take from there that allowed you to start progressing?
I think It was largely realizing how much the anxiety had lifted was very eye opening for me, because that sort of led me down the path of figuring out, Okay, what else have I been holding back? And how can I start to move into a more true version of me? And that wasn’t, it seems very abstract, and when we hear about this, I’m doing a podcast episode coming up about how, like what the hell is doing the work? Like what does that mean? It’s such an abstract concept but like, okay, where do we begin and I don’t think that there’s one answer to this because it looks different for everyone. But I think that a big part of it is stepping a little bit outside of your comfort zone. And someone said something to me recently, that they were shocked that I was so completely cool with picking up and moving to the other side of the world, completely by myself, I didn’t know anybody, and I was fine with it. They’re like, you know, when I got out of a long term relationship, I felt weird even going to a restaurant by myself. And so if that’s something that that somebody is dealing with, if we’re talking about getting out of a relationship or something like that, I think learning to be more comfortable in your own company, is going to be a really big part of healing because then you’re going to recognize that you’re okay by yourself, that you are a whole person without another human being, you’re not a half of a whole, you are whole.
I love that and it’s almost what I even think is the number one intention. Because I remember coming out of my last sort of longer relationship, and this was maybe about 18 months ago, and maybe actually less than that, experiencing a lot of loneliness. Not in the first month, in the first month it was like oh, man, oh that like because I experienced a lot of jealousy and a lot of anxiety. But that was a reflection on what I was insecure with. So she was a perfect mirror for me. She’s just, she was just what I needed honestly. But what it brought up for me was a lot of stuff that would literally, like you said, shine a light on a lot of stuff that I need to work on. But about a month later is when it started to weigh down and then I was like, oh, it would be nice if I had someone else you know, it would be nice if I had someone to go to a restaurant or give me a massage or whatever. Well that we can I can cook or a dinner or something like that. So that’s why I started craving that a lot. But that was definitely out of a place of lack, it was out of a place of I need someone not I would like someone, it was out of a place of I will be happy if…this would actually make me feel loved if. Rather than being like no I can feel loved just within myself as I am in my own company. And I can give myself that and that’s definitely something that was that shine light on for me that I like to learn during that posted experience. So for you bringing about these lessons, what would they be maybe a highlight in terms of the lesson that shine for you coming out of this, that you would like to share with people either going through a relationship that might be a struggle now, okay, and maybe what red flags are coming up, okay? Or someone that’s just gone through an experience like that.
One thing is to trust yourself. You really need to trust yourself. And again, I’m still working on that. Because that’s a long time to be like, yeah, to not have trusted when you can see now that your body and your mind were trying to tell you something and you kept ignoring it. And the only way to fix that is to start by keeping really small promises to yourself first.
Yes, talk to me about
really small. So things like, you know, because I was struggling to keep a business going in the aftermath of all this while dealing with the fallout and whatever, so I would get really annoyed with myself because I would say, Okay, I’m going to do this, this, this and this task today, and then I wouldn’t do them. And that was just contributing to my lack of self trust in myself. So I had to start setting myself even a super small task that felt like nothing. And commit to actually getting it done that day! It could even just be something as simple as you know, if you’re going to record a podcast episode today,ok great. So you have to actually record the podcast episode today. And you’re going to because I wasn’t doing a very good job of taking care of myself for the first at least, especially the first couple of weeks. It was, you know, you’re going to eat three meals today, or two meals today. You know, it’s like, it sounds so basic, or you’re going to go for a walk, you’re going to get some fresh air, but when you’re in like the depths of depression, that shit is hard. Like it’s hard enough to even get out of bed much less even thinking about making a meal or going outdoors.
For me it would be ‘do not order Dominoes today’.
Yeah, so it’s things like that keeping those promises to yourself, no matter how small they seem, are going to lead into bigger promises. And that’s going to start to rebuild some of that self trust a little bit.
I love that. And so when you start, to just notice these shifts. Of course, like you said, you started expanding those promises. Was there anything that sort of aligned along this path to self trust? Was there anything that stood out, maybe another practical tool that you could offer around that? When it comes to building up self trust or even self compassion and some sort of way?
I’m trying to think of some specific things. In terms of self compassion, I think it’s really important to remember that you can vary wildly on how you feel from day to day and that that’s completely normal. Like you can take two steps forward, and the next day you can be 22 steps behind, and think ‘how the fuck did I get here? Like I had a great day yesterday, what happened overnight? I don’t understand! My life is falling apart. What’s going on? You need to recognize that that’s normal and of course, it’s easy to say but when you’re in it, it doesn’t. It’s harder to think that way but it is normal. That’s part of the process. And sometimes it’s almost good to have some people in your life that you can almost use as like measuring sticks. So I had a girlfriend who came up from Chicago to visit me in Canada just like a month and a half after all this first happened, and I was a wreck. I cried for probably almost the entire three days, like I was just a disaster. And then she and I met up a few months later in Hawaii. And she’s like, there were like a couple things that you were still sad about when we would actually talk about it, but you were a different human being. And yet there was still days at that point where I was like, I still kind of feel like shit sometimes. You know, I don’t know how she’s like no, you are a different human. Then you were a few months ago, so sometimes you need people like that in your life who can kind of take a more birds eye approach and see the things that you don’t see in yourself? Because we’re so hard on ourselves. We’re so hard on ourselves. We’re our own worst critics and we make it really difficult to give ourselves credit for any type of progression.
Oh Massively. Yeah. And that’s almost what creates meaning around progression, doesn’t it? Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Acknowledging the fact that you have come a long way you have done the work even though a lot of us don’t even know what the hell that means, like doing the work. That’s when you can see I have done the work
totally. Do you have like sort of a habit of reflection that you integrate in some sort of way. Is there maybe or is there maybe a way that you go about it in terms of?
I think, for me when I first started, this was really early on, maybe like two or three weeks in, I wrote a list of all of the types, and I’m sure there are a lot more! but I wrote a long list of all of the potential triggers in my next relationship, not because I wanted to be in a relationship, or anything like that just, I was thinking ahead going, what are all the things that my intuition ignored? Well, my intuition was screaming at me but I ignored it, that I’m going to be triggered by next time? Because of what has happened, right. And I wrote that entire list out because I just wanted to see it in front of me in black and white, to really take a close look at it. Then later, a couple months later, a few months later, I went back and looked at that list, and I thought, but a lot of those things are normal. Like,they’re normal things and that was why I believed him. So I don’t want those things to become triggers. And it’s the meaning that we attach to something that makes it what it is, that gives it its power. So if I write down a list of triggers, and I just decide that those are triggers, of course I’m going to be triggered! There’s no getting around it right? But if you can look at it from a little bit more logical perspective later on, once you can have a little bit more distance from it, it becomes much easier to look at that and go, okay, but those are actually normal behaviors. Those are normal things. Yeah, I might be triggered with that. But whenever I go through that, I’ll work through that in real time and with my future partner, or whomever, to figure that out.
Totally. Yeah. And that internalization of that, and that sense of ownership that you created is almost a great form of self compassion on its own, isn’t it?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. like figuring out you know, okay, like, acknowledging that I will be triggered is, I think just the most important part. Because we’re all going to be triggered by certain things depending on our human experience.
Yeah, massively, it’s not that internalization sort of self sabotage, rather it’s the internalization around self compassion isn’t it?
Yes, massively. And in my eyes anyway, I know based off of exactly what you said that you’d relate with this, is that the greatest form of self compassion is almost the acknowledgement and acceptance of when I do go down the rabbit hole of Hey, it’s okay, not rather than Oh damn, I’m falling down the rabbit hole. Yeah, you know kick my head on the ground …
I had to really remind myself of that sometimes because there would be times like, especially as I would find out more and more details of what had gone on, where I remember calling my mom and I’d be like, is this ever gonna end? I just I feel like I can never escape this, I feel like I can’t escape him because I was not only living in our home, by myself at that point, but our home surrounded by our things, and then when I found out that he not only had the secret house down the street, but was secretly living there again now. I’m like, I can’t even walk down the street and escape him. Right before I left for Bali my best friend and I went for a walk, and because there was literally no other place to walk. I walked by that house and I said to her, you know, in 10 or 20 years, we’re gonna look back on this and be like, remember, that super fucked up time where that dude that cheated on you for nine years was living 170 meters away in a secret house?
By the way, just a quick aside, if anyone’s ever lying to you, you can often tell because, and I actually came up with an entire podcast episode on lying. But when I confronted him, about the house I sat on it for a while, shockingly, there were some financial things. I didn’t want to rock the boat too much. But when I did end up coming out about it and confronted him, I said, you’ve had this house 170 meters away, can you explain to me what is the secret? and his response was ‘200 meters’. That’s an irrelevant detail and also you’re mistaken, but you’re trying to buy time so that you can come up with more lies. So a lot of times you can start to figure out sometimes when people are lying to you, but those are the things that I would have shoved aside before, because my intuition would have been like, no trust him. Like he’s done all these other things. And yeah so really getting to know yourself on a deep level.Sometimes it takes a pretty significant punch in the face.
Kieran: Totally. But was that your intuition saying trust him? or was that your intellect at that point in time?
That’s an excellent question. I think that throughout the relationship, it was probably more intellect than intuition because my intuition was right! Yeah. But my intellect was like, no, it’s not possible. On a pros and cons list he’s doing all of these pros. And then there’s this one little con, there’s no way that that’s the thing.
Totally. So before you explain that? Can you maybe talk about what you know is the difference between intellect and intuition so that people understand.
Oh, ah, you ask the most interesting questions.
No, I love it. I think that intellect is what we think should be true in the world and that intuition is what is actually our truth.
I like that so much.
Yeah, thank you. I think that that’s a really important distinction because we fall into the shoulds. We always do, right? it’s almost human default.
So would you say that maybe some of the things that you’ve highlighted would allow people to shift more into the intuition so they can stick more into the truth?
I hope so. I think that, and I’m sure that you talk about this a lot, like things like a therapist asked me once, ‘where do you feel your anxiety?’ and no one had ever asked me that before. I had to think about it for a minute and I realized it was my stomach. My stomach was clenched. And now I can sort of tell that because the anxiety lifted and my stomach was no longer clenched all the time, now I can notice more hits like intuition hits If I meet someone that I’m not really I don’t get good vibes from, I can kind of feel it in my stomach. But when I was like shoving that all down and the anxiety was just sitting there, I couldn’t feel that because I’d put up all these blocks. That I couldn’t actually even reach that point.
Also, the anxiety was so normal it was already there. It’s like when people are inflamed because of gluten or lactose. And because they over consume, when they have gluten, they’re already inflamed. So they don’t feel the change. Whereas when someone goes on an elimination diet for a week or something and allows it, they got to heal a little bit and they eat gluten again, it’s like OH…Got Diarrhea!
yeah, exactly. So again, it kind of brings it back to, we normalize whatever we know and we have to get very clear on what we are actually making normal here. We don’t know it a lot of times until you’re past it ,until you can look back and go, Oh, I felt that way and now I feel this way and here’s the difference. What are the differences between that and how do we bridge that gap? How did I get there?
Yeah. So I’ll sort of start wrapping up this podcast but I do want to shine a little bit more light on the authenticity and the vulnerability around creating that scope or that lens of looking at something that I might have normalized within myself. How would I go about constructing that for myself, if I’ve normalized something within me, but because I’ve normalized it, it feels so normal for me, what do you think would be a great way to allow myself to bring that stuff up? Something that I’ve normalized that is traumatic and holding me back?
I think that asking yourself more questions. The hard part is trying to figure out when to ask yourself more questions, and like what questions to ask, because we’ve made something normal. We won’t even necessarily think to ask those questions. But I think just starting to question your entire, like every, all kinds of behaviors and things part of your routine and things like that, you can start to maybe shake that up a little bit. And you’re going to start to notice, then the questions start to come more naturally. So if you have a really set routine, and I’m somebody who loves routine, I think that most humans thrive off of routine. But if something isn’t working, then maybe you need to shift something. And it might not be until you shift a certain behavior or habit, it could be something super small, like, you know, maybe you go for a walk every morning, and then you get to work. Maybe you need to work first and then go for a walk. It could be something as simple as that, that can end up starting to trigger some of those questions like, Where am I actually being productive? What’s working for me? What isn’t? How does this make me feel? Starting to check in with yourself, it’s going to require you to ask yourself some of those questions, but you might not know what to ask until you change things in some small way.
Yeah, I like that. Thank you. Cool. Thank you. So I really want to highlight three things that stood out for me over this and I wanna dive into a little bit more before we wrap this up. One thing in particular, that stood out was getting to enjoy your own company as a whole, not a half. Can you speak a little bit more on that and speak a little bit more on something that someone right now listening to this is going to take away and go start using it?
Oh, in some ways I almost feel a little bit guilty because I feel like it comes a little bit more naturally to me because I’m an only child and I’m an introvert as well. So I feel
But at the same time I get these benefits, but there’s also parts where you might have struggled in terms of, because you’re the only child you got that attention, but then as soon as you step down into school into, you know, university, into work, you weren’t getting that same level of attention because you’re not the only person there right. That’s the struggle. Isn’t it? I think I would have been in a bigger challenge.
Okay. Yeah, actually, yeah, that’s that’s true. Yeah. So I think that allowing yourself the space to be alone. That’s most important and alone without distractions, because a lot of us can just sit back with Netflix and chill. And that’s easy.
YES! I’m so glad you talked about this! Yes, that’s hard. That’s not true alone time.
No, that is not true alone time. True alone time is like alone in silence. And I would challenge people to take out your earbuds. Like when you’re going for a walk, especially in nature, you can’t fully appreciate nature if you have earbuds in. I know you would agree with that for sure. You don’t get to hear the sounds, you don’t get to have the awareness of what’s going on around you. And then especially if you’re listening to something like a podcast, listen, I’m podcast Queen. I love when people listen to podcasts, but there’s still a time and a place, like I want people to have alone time too, without music, without Netflix, without distraction. And it’s gonna feel uncomfortable at times, like that silence is almost gonna be deafening. And you’re going to have to do it a few times to start to appreciate it and that’s also going to help you to tune in more with your intuition. Because otherwise you can’t hear what your body and mind are trying to tell you because there’s so much there’s too much noise. We’re surrounded by noise all the time, both literal and metaphorical, like information overload and cars honking and all the things like you can’t, you can’t tap into that until you release the attachment to it and allow the space for the silence. And you’re going to start to be more comfortable with yourself and I think probably start to crave it. Even if you’re an extrovert, or whatever. Yeah.
Massively, at the end of the day even if I am an extrovert and I gain energy by being around people, I can’t truly go and would fully if I’m being distracted by that externalization in some sort of way. I’ve got to fully be alone, don’t I? In order to go fully inwards! I totally resonate with that and totally agree. Actually, what you just talked about is how I introduce people to meditation. So beautiful takeaway. Thank you for sharing that. And the second thing that really stood out for me was the idea of self trust, starting with small promises and progressing into bigger ones. What’s maybe a good amount of little promises someone can start with the stop maybe? Is it just one or do you recommend doing a little task sheet? What do you recommend in terms of initiating a practical start point on that?
I think it depends on the person in terms of how much structure they function best with. So some people might prefer you know that little to do list or you can have the satisfying little check at the end of the day. I’m a big fan. But other times it’s gonna be too much structure for people. Yeah. So maybe they write it down as a thought in their journal. Maybe they just literally think it and they’re like, Okay, this is my mental commitment to myself and I’m going to do this thing. And I think that something else which it’s important to acknowledge is that even if you have a day where you don’t keep your promise to yourself that that’s also still just being human. So don’t think that if you don’t keep your promise to yourself every single day rigidly that you can no longer trust yourself, that’s still part of the process that that ties in with you know you’re gonna have a good day then you’re gonna have a bad day and you’re gonna have the worst day and then you might have a slightly better day like it just be all over the map. Yeah.
Yeah, so it is very individual right and it’s almost like a trial and error. Okay, that felt good. Okay, I’m getting my tasks done. Yeah, yeah, well celebration.
Yeah. And like don’t get too sucked down the rabbit hole. I am very type A, so I can start to only thrive on that, like, if I didn’t get anything done today, I’m a failure and then I really absorb that. So it is a fine line and I think it really depends on your personality type, how far you need to take it. But that’s why I recommend keeping the promises quite simple. Like don’t necessarily attach all those promises to yourself on things related to productivity or work or something, you need to do you know, like make it self care stuff. Or have a meal with a friend or take the dog for a walk or snuggle your pet like snuggle bubbles. It’s things like that. I don’t want people to take that to mean that it should only be related to, because we can all get too attached to like, attaching self worth to work. That’s a fine line and you need to be careful with that.
Yeah, exactly especially if i’m trying to escape something right? I’ll just keep busy!
And then the final thing that really stood out for me is the normalization around the fact that it is okay to experience these things, that it is okay to feel anxious, It is okay to fluctuate with hormones, that it is okay to have irregular periods. It is okay to go through this stuff. So what is maybe something that would allow for people to become more okay with it?Is it listening to these podcasts and listening to more conversations around it? Or is it maybe something that you might do with journaling? Or what? What is it for you that allows people to normalize thati nternally?
I think it’s kind of like both of those things that you mentioned, just like talking to people, you know, I’ll tell people, the entire reason why I came out with my story was because I felt so alone in that period, even though I knew like a couple people that have been cheated on kind of, but nothing like what I was experiencing nothing, not the length of time, not the depths that had been going on, like the secrets, nothing like that. And so I felt like I couldn’t relate to anybody and it was very isolating. It was very, it was a very lonely place to be. And I thought, you know, infidelity is very common, but we don’t talk about it because it’s a very taboo topic. And I thought, if I can come forward with my story that is no different than most people’s stories of infidelity it just happens to have a few extra dramatics attached to it and I can show people that I have gotten through this. It happened to me and I worked through it, and I’m still working through it, to just give somebody a little ounce of hope when they need it on a dark day. So I think that talking about it, but also being protective of your own heart. Because there were a lot of people in my life that I didn’t even tell anything was happening, because that was going to require more of an energy output, than I could even handle. Especially again, because of the dramatics. They were going to freak out. And this happened several times, and I was going to have to spend all my energy managing their reaction, as opposed to getting comfort from them for myself. Just like finding those really key people in your life. And if you don’t maybe feel like you have someone. The internet’s a beautiful place sometimes, like you can reach out to people who have had these types of experiences. You can hire a coach or mentor, you can do those types of things to connect with people that are going to make you feel a little bit less alone and lonely.
Rather than blurting it out on a facebook post. Now I have all these reactions I have to manage, oh my god.
Yeah. So that kind of goes back to the line between public and private, you have to kind of figure that out for yourself. It’s gonna look different for everybody, a lot of times people will think that they know everything that happened. I’m like, oh, there’s a whole lot I haven’t talked about publicly. You’re getting the base level story of what happened? But that’s all I need to talk about. Because the other details are irrelevant. Yeah, it doesn’t. It doesn’t change the story. Particularly it doesn’t change the outcome.
which is more of an ego thing
Exactly. And I’ve had people interview me a couple times where they’ve asked questions where it’s very much like just seeking for the juicy details and it’s so easy to hear that difference. But all of us sometimes will sit on the edge of our seats like, you know, that’s human because it’s part of the story. Well, what else did he? did what else? but it doesn’t matter. I was very particular that I only shared and will only continue to share the details that are necessary to the point of the story.
I respect that a lot, and I respect you alot. I really do. I really, and especially after the story, I’m sure many people listening would respect you a lot, especially for coming through and staying so true. And also, from what I know is Emily actually asked consent to talk about this stuff isn’t that right?
I did multiple times. Yeah. He was not in a great state when I left the country. And I needed to make sure he would be okay. You know, I spent nine years with this man, I will still always have a soft spot for him. People will say to me, you know, I would hate him, I’d be so angry with him. Yes of course, there have been times where I’ve been really angry with him and to some degree, I can certainly still kind of call up that anchor if I want to but it’s not constructive. And I think that I have mixed feelings about that saying ‘hurt people hurt people’, because I’m like, okay, but hurt people also have to take responsibility for their actions. I had multiple conversations with him, he knew from the very beginning that I was going to go public with it. We talked about it so many times over the months that we were working together in our house, and even right up until I left, I was like, listen, this is happening sooner rather than later. Are you going to be okay? He was like, yeah, I’ll be fine. I can deal with it. Okay. Yeah. So full consent.
And not everybody will have that consent. And that doesn’t mean that you can’t talk about your story just still be protective with privacy.
Absolutely. At the end of the day, that’s sticking into your own integrity, isn’t it?
So coming out the other end of this conversation, so I just want to say thank you so much. You’ve been absolutely incredible. Like I said, when I really sat down with you just even at the cafe when we had a little conversation it was I honestly lifted the conversation feeling energized and inspired. I really mean that, it’s not something I’m trying to blow smoke up your ass.
Is there anything else you’d like to leave anyone that might be going through those red flags, going through that anxiety in a relationship or going through anxiety post some traumatic experience? Is there anything, maybe a little message? maybe one last tool? whatever? What is one thing that you want to leave people with that really stood out for you out of this
You’re stronger than you think. You’re far stronger than you think. And you won’t know how strong you are until you’re presented with an experience that you have to move through regardless. And you will build self trust. If we’re bringing it back to self trust, you will build that self trust by making a sort of the other side of that experience. You’ll go Holy fuck, I just lived through that? What else have you got? Throw it at me.
Totally and let me tell you up until now, you’ve already faced all that stuff that you’ve bombed. Yeah, whatever it is. So I mean whatever you’re facing right now is, you’ve got it!
Cool. So where can people find you?
over at the Room to Grow Podcast! @Emilygoughcoach on Instagram, and emilygoughcoaching.com.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:38
Yeah, beautiful. All the things, all the details in the notes below so you guys can check it out. Now, I want to finish this and wrap this up with a very broad question that is very individual based off the person’s experience. What lights you up?!
Showing up as my genuine self and seeing other people do the same. Too many of us live behind our masks, especially in the age of social media.
Yeah. Yeah. Really. And just so you guys know, she, like literally about 90 to 95% of this entire interview, you’ve had a massive smile on your face. Right. But as you can hear the laugh is just as true. It’s authentic and vulnerable. And it clearly shows that she’s just done the work. So I encourage you guys to head over, learn what you can from this amazing woman and start to apply things in a practical way. And this is why I’m so intentional about creating practicality around these podcasts rather than just giving you something to think on or something new perspective because at the end of the day shifting perspective didn’t change what I felt inside myself. it was actually doing the work. internalizing that abstraction, and actually focusing intentionally on spending time with me, I’m going to work on myself, trust using these tools, I’m going to learn to normalize these aspects of myself that I feel abnormal, right? It’s those key things. So, yeah, without further ado, I just want to say one more Thank you. And please, I really, really encourage you even if you aren’t going through relationship troubles or have been through, which I don’t know any human that hasn’t. But even if that wasn’t the case, even if you’re a frickin alien that just landed on this earth, okay, and you’ve never been in a relationship, then there are so many beautiful aspects you can learn from this woman in terms of progression, self help, and personal growth overall.
Thank you so much, Kieran, can I just say you were like one of the most pure, beautiful souls I think I’ve ever met. And sometimes I’m like, is he human? Is he real? Like, I didn’t know that people like you existed. So I just need to say that before we wrap up, I need your people to understand how special you are and how special they are, how special it is that they’re able to listen to you and to tune into To hear you and to get to know you a little bit better.
Wow. Thank you. That’s incredible. I’m blown away by that. Oh man, what a way to finish this podcast.
Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. I’m so grateful you took the time and it means the absolute world to me. For any references in the episode and all show notes. Be sure to jump over to roomtogrowpodcast.com If this episode touched your heart, it would mean so much. If you would take a quick second to hit subscribe, write a review and share on social media or with someone who really needs to hear today’s message. It makes such a difference to keep this podcast going so I can continue to bring you amazing content and absolutely incredible guests. Be sure to tag me on Instagram over at Emily golf coach so that I can thank you in real time for listing and connect with you. We’re back every Tuesday and Thursday with brand new episodes and I’m looking forward to growing with you
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