“…I want everyone to be able to make all the money that they want. But you can do that while also not triggering people and having humanity and introducing that into your business.” ~ Chelsea Wallace

On today’s episode, I have the pleasure of interviewing Chelsea Wallace, a Launch Strategist and Copywriter, supporting online coaches and consultants in launching their programs and packages from flow and grace–creating their dream launches that feel full, fulfilling, AND secure the bag to the tune of multi-5 + 6-figures. This is Chelsea’s second time on the podcast, and I have linked her previous episode as well for you to listen to.  There’s so much that we have to learn from someone like Chelsea when it comes to business and launching in the online space.

We’re diving into a BIG topic today for all the business people. How to launch in this new normal world we live in.

We’re going to cover things like:

• Exploring what a new launch normal can look like
• What launch practices trigger us and trigger our communities
• How we can begin to shift those launch practices in ways that may or may not sacrifice profitability for justice and humanity.
• Unpacking the ways that launching hasn’t been working for a really long time
• How some of the resistance that you may have experienced around launching was actually a sign that things needed to shift
• And a TON more…

 There’s so much incredible info jam packed into this episode.  I hope you listen to it on repeat!

For white women who are interested in exploring these things, embarking on this journey and unlearning and learning new ways…get on the waitlist, Chelsea is planning something for you! bit.ly/newlaunchnormal

Women of color can DM Chelsea directly on Instagram for details on the upcoming circles @thelaunchcopycoach

 

Looking for Christina’s other episode with Emily? Find it here:

[BIZ TIPS] Coaching Call: Launching a Podcast with Chelsea Wallace

 

Are you ready? Get listening right away by clicking the link above, or if you’re more in the mood to read today keep scrolling for the full transcription! Let’s do this!

 

Emily

Hey, welcome back to the Room to Grow podcast, Emily here and today I’m bringing you an extra special guest. This is actually a return guest to the podcast. Her name is Chelsea Wallace and she is just an absolute delight you guys, and this episode is absolutely mind blowing. Chelsea is a launch strategist and copywriter and she supports online coaches and consultants in launching their programs and packages from this flow and grace creating place to build their dream launch that feels fulfilling and secures the bag to the tune of multi five to six figures. I don’t know about you, but that sounds pretty awesome to me. This is an extra special episode though, because Chelsea was actually on the podcast once before on episode 177, and the episode has been super popular. It was actually a coaching call that I did with her about launching her podcast, which is now live listed in the show notes. You’re gonna have to go check that out because it’s amazing. Chelsea and I actually did an Instagram Live on my Instagram just a few weeks ago, and it was about launching and how to launch from a place of less stress. Just a few days later, the situation with George Floyd happened. This black lives matter revolution began and that completely changed the conversation. What was most interesting about that was that I mean, all of a sudden the content that Chelsea and I had just recorded was basically completely irrelevant. Much more importantly, I just started to see this massive shift happen almost instantaneously in the online space. Something that I feel and Chelsea also feels is very long overdue, and it’s almost as though we didn’t fully recognize, not to speak for Chelsea, but for myself, I think that I didn’t really realize that that shift needed to happen until I saw it happening. Then it became clear how overdue it is. Now this also created a lot of issues because I think there’s just been a lot of confusion than for anyone who was about to launch, or in the middle of a launch like I was, or maybe you just came out of a launch like Chelsea will be talking about in this episode, and trying to figure out what your next move is maybe you’re feeling exhausted rundown from a launch. The thing is that launching has a bit of a bad rap, of course it’s necessary but it can be quite lucrative, it can take everything you have and can come from a quite unhealthy place. One of the many things that the situation that has unfolded has done is to really shine a light in the online coaching space, and has really shown where things need to shift in a big way. 

 

This episode is so powerful. I’m going to be listening to this episode and re-listening to it multiple times over because the things that Chelsea had to say and share in this episode. I said to her, even just from when I had her we’ve spoken many times in between but even since when I had her on the podcast back in January I said to her, when we got off the call, I can hear the difference in your voice, I can feel your energy and your passion and your fire coming through and it’s amazing to listen to. There’s so much that we have to learn from someone like Chelsea when it comes to business and launching in the online space. So Chelsea’s getting into more things than I could even mention in this introduction but just to like clip, the very, the very top layer here, we’re getting into things like unpacking the ways that launching hasn’t been working for a really long time, and how some of the resistance that you may have experienced around launching was actually a sign that things needed to shift to begin creating massive impact and massive bank accounts without wounding other human beings, particularly people of color and the Black community. Chelsea’s talking to us about getting aligned with paradigm systems tactics, messaging, and how a lot of what we have been taught about launching from White people has been problematic for other White people as well, not even just for people of color and for the Black community, but a lot of the things that we have learned have not actually been serving any of us particularly well. Chelsea actually said at one point that the more I take care of my internal work, the more my business will grow. I just thought that that was so powerful and such a beautiful reflection of some of the really significant things that she’s getting into in this episode. She’s also giving some tools and ways to move forward whether you were in a pre-launch or in the middle of a launch or about to launch as well. I cannot recommend Chelsea enough, I have so much respect for her and I have for a really long time and you absolutely must go follow her on Instagram. She’s talking about some of the various ways that you can connect with her here in the episode as well, which will also be listed in the show notes. I just strongly recommend that you pay attention to this episode. This might be an episode that you don’t want to be doing a lot of other things during because this is an episode that you need to give your full attention because you don’t want to miss a single word. Chelsea was already very generous with your time and I think we went slightly over our usual hour so I don’t want to hold up this introduction any longer. So make sure to go check out Chelsea and let’s get into this. 

 

Welcome back to the Room to Grow podcast and I am laughing because Chelsea and I were just talking. I feel like this happens with multiple guests but especially this conversation, you and I are starting to get into it and you were like, I might not remember this. We need to just hit record. I’m like okay, we’re diving in. So Chelsea, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast. This is actually your second time on the podcast but this one is a big deal. We have a lot to dig into today. Just a little bit. So tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about what you do because you were the first person I reached out to in this and I was like, because you and I also did an Instagram live together about launching just like four or five days before the George Floyd situation came about. I then reached out to you. I’m like, ah, I don’t think that our Instagram Live is relevant any longer five days later, can we record a new episode? Because a lot has changed, I keep getting ahead of myself, I’m sorry. Tell us a little bit about you.

 

Chelsea

Thank you for having me back, and hello to all of you wonderful listeners out in podcast land. I’m Chelsea. I have a few things you should know about. I am Jamaican, I live and work in Jamaica, and I am a Black woman and I have experienced racism in the United States. I am also a launch strategist and copywriter and I’m exceptional at what I do if I do say so myself, hats off to me.

 

Emily

I have the biggest smile on my face because essentially what you do and I just fucking love that you’re owning it. So yes, girl, yes, I’m all over this.

 

Chelsea

Let’s see, really what I do is help coaches and consultants to really align their launches with their internal world. For me, that’s kind of where it starts and I’ve said this on my own podcast previously that I’ve been circling around this internal work that’s associated with launching for years, for like four years but I never really brought it to the front of what I do in my business. Emily and I were just talking about this and saying that all the smoke and mirrors have been removed and now we have to face our real internal issue. It’s a really ideal time for us to begin to face that internal issue with relation to launching. If you’ve been wondering why you’re getting sick before, during, and after your launches, like all the time, if you’re wondering why you feel so drained after launching, and you’re literally almost unable to show up for your students and your clients. All of those things, to me, are signals that there’s something out of alignment. What I help you do in a big way is really release that resistance. Get your internal world in alignment with an inflow with what are the best strategies for you, and what works for you and if we have to create strategies from scratch, what that looks like for you so that you can launch with fullness and fulfillment and create that opportunity where you are creating massive impact. You’re not triggering other people or wounding other people with the strategies and tactics and messaging you’re using, and you’re launching and hitting multi five and six figure goals. So that’s what I do.

 

Emily 

You just said a mouthful there and I have about 10,000 questions just from that alone that I want to dig into. There’s so much.

 

Chelsea

Let’s go.

 

Emily

Oh my gosh, okay, first of all, aligning launches with people’s internal worlds. That is just an incredible statement in and of itself and I think that one of the biggest parts that people are struggling with the most is another point that you mentioned around creating massive impact without wounding or triggering other people. I would love for you to speak to that a little bit more You also put up a really powerful Instagram post a week or so ago, asking women of color, particularly the Black community, to walk people through some of the issues that they’ve experienced in the online space and some of the difficulties that they’ve experienced that are unique to them, that I, for example, as a white person would not necessarily feel or experience. That ties in so much with creating that amazing impact without wounding people. Can you speak to that a little bit more and walk us through that a little bit?

 

Chelsea

Yeah, sure. I’ve just personally been examining a lot of the tactics and strategies and messaging that I have encouraged my own clients to use, and the ways in which I have agreed with the systems and the paradigms that do wound people that do trigger us as people of color, as minority peoples, as people who don’t look like the normalized standard in society, and what is normal anyway, but that’s a whole other conversation. I have been looking, and really examining those strategies and tactics and messaging, I have just really remembered when I recommended those things, or when I personally use those things, how they felt not right to me, how they felt icky, how they felt like something in the back of myself is like Chelsea, this is not okay, but I ignored it. Because that’s not the way you launch, because all of the white males, let’s be honest, gurus and experts in the online business space have told us how to launch. They have actually told us that doing it our own way is a bad idea. Why? Because people who go first get arrows in the back, like I actually heard somebody say this. I heard people teach that you shouldn’t find your own way, you should just model what other people do. Because when you find your own way, you’re the one who’s going out there first and when you go out there first you get arrows in the back, the people who go first die. I’m like, ah, why do you think they die? You killed it.

 

Emily

That is alarmingly similar to the oppression that has been going on for a long time. Like just that statement alone is alarming. 

 

Chelsea

Exactly. It literally is the paradigm and the pattern of imperialism and colonialism and racism and capitalism. It’s like all of these things that oppress, that wound, that limit, that dehumanize, that murder. Like all of those things, that is literally what just came out of your mouth. This is what we are taught in the online business space and so we do things the way we do them because we are taught. We come in, we’re new, we’re like, Oh my goodness, this is an opportunity to create extra income for myself and my family. This is an opportunity to really live my dream life, like all of these pictures and desires that we have in our minds, this is an opportunity to do that. How do I get there? Then we start looking for people who are gonna help us figure out how, and they give us a checklist and we follow the checklist because we’re like, We want to get there, but at what cost? At what cost? That’s what I am really beginning to actively unpack for myself, for my clients, for all of the women of color and Black women who come to me, because we’ve been having some really interesting conversations, and we’ll continue to do so over the next, however long, probably several months, and maybe even the rest of my business life. I just think that there are systems and paradigms and strategies, tactics, messaging that triggers those old wounds in peoples who have not typically looked like the normalized standard of society. It’s hard to say that it is or isn’t intentional, and quite honestly, it’s not my job to examine whether or not it is or isn’t intentional because it’s my job to figure out, Okay, I am learning those things for myself because I’m not agreeing with you anymore. The White supremacist, racist, imperialist standard, I’m not gonna be with you anymore. I have to do things differently. So me and those who are interested in this work on learning those agreements that we’ve made, and finding new ways for ourselves where we can launch and it doesn’t hurt people, we can launch and it doesn’t trigger scarcity in people, it doesn’t trigger fear in people doesn’t trigger people’s survival mechanisms. If I buy from that place anyway, how far am I really going to get? You start something in pain and wound and brokenness and you expect it to end in beauty and you’re not like some kind of Messianic person who’s going to heal and fix everything, like you are not a savior, you do not heal and fix us. That is our job. For us, especially as communities of color and as those who have not lived up to whatever that standard has been, who have not, for whatever reason are not within that standard. We do not experience that reality. I think we get to unlearn those things and find new ways for ourselves so that we do not trigger ourselves, we don’t trigger our own communities. Then we don’t trigger anyone else. We don’t wound other people, we don’t continue with those agreements that began in unhealthy places and continue to produce unhealthy results. I don’t know if that’s too strong a statement to make, but the oppressors are not the ones that we get to look to for healing, because the oppressors have to heal themselves. I think we get to unlearn those things for ourselves and find new ways for ourselves so that we actually allow ourselves to heal instead of triggering those old wounds and those pains over and over and over again and actually limiting our own selves because of these checklists that we think we have to go by when we don’t. That was a lot to say, and that was a whole mouthful, but I hope that makes sense and that you understand where I’m coming from.

 

Emily

I love hearing this from you because I think that it’s incredibly powerful. I feel like everyone listening to this, we all need to rewind, and listen again to everything that Chelsea just said, because there is a lot to unpack in there. I think that the more that we can do that unpacking and heal from it, the more that everyone wins. This is a universally beneficial system to tear apart and to rebuild in a better, more beautiful way. That is, that’s a good thing and that’s a positive thing for all of us. There are many strategies that I’ve learned, I have had coaches, White coaches, tell me to do. Similar to you that I have taken and taught other people as well, that never really felt great to me. As somebody who is White, I can’t imagine being a person of color who was already potentially more triggered by particular instances, especially in a majority White online coaching space, and trying to come at those strategies from that same way as well. If it didn’t feel good to me, I can’t even imagine how some of those felt for you or for anyone of color. Can you give some examples like maybe some kind of specific examples just to people if they’re trying to like, imagine what it is that we’re talking about. It’s all of the tactics and messaging and stuff that has not felt good to you in the past that that you are now looking to change and shift. 

 

Chelsea

It’s in every stage,  in the world of stages, in the nurturing stages, in the actual objections and closing stages. I think the most evident examples are definitely during that stage where, for example, you’ve come to the end of the webinar, and it’s time to close people into your program and you start saying things like, this investment is not for me, it’s for you, I don’t need your money. Don’t you though, you have a business, business needs money to run, right? So if nobody ever bought your thing, you wouldn’t be in business. So why are you putting this responsibility on me and making it feel like I’m actually doing you a favor, this is me doing you a favor. I’m the webinar host, I am the expert, and I’m doing you a favor. So you should do yourself a favor and invest in your program. Do you know how condescending that sounds? Especially if you are a White person, and you have someone of color on your call, like that is simply in so many ways affirming the paradigm of you can’t take care of yourself, you don’t know what’s good for yourself, let me do it for you. Even though the way I’m going to do it is actually not going to take care of you. It’s only in my own self-interest. That is one example. You know, and there’s so many others.

 

I’m cracking up Emily, I’m laughing because I was gonna say I have a whole book on how to close people at the end of webinars. I was going to call the person out who wrote the book and be like, bro, all your tactics, we’re not using those no more. In case you’re wondering who I’m talking about, I’ll go ahead and make the call out, Russell Brunson.  I don’t remember if he has a book on the perfect webinar, but his perfect Webinar Program. He has about 12 to 14 different ways of closing people, and he has scripts in that book. Now, here’s the thing about all of these launch strategies and tactics, they actually work. This is the tricky thing about everything that I’m talking about on this podcast episode. These strategies work, they have worked and they’ve worked for decades, but at what cost? That’s the question that we’re asking right now. At what cost? I mean, it’s not enough. The price that human beings, the price that my soul pays, and being a part of your program where you teach me this stuff, that’s not worth it to me. I’m going to stop paying it because that’s not worth it and I think all of us in the online business space are becoming aware of the price that these strategies and tactics are actually costing us like what we’re actually paying. I’m not talking about paying in terms of money. I’m talking about paying in terms of our psyche, in terms of our emotional and internal world’s like, what is the price that we are actually paying and is it worth it? Is it worth it to pay that price? And so lovely Mr. Brunson with his amazing books, all of his books that really work and that will make you money. But at what cost? If you are a person of color, and if you are a person who has never fit in whatever way, shape or form, and you have been normalized standards that we celebrate and accept, as, right, good, etc, in the online fitness space, if you’re a person who fits into, like any of those experiences out what what cost Have you been paying by abiding by these things? And if you are a White person, what cost have you been paid? Because the fact of the matter is the work that White people have to do and the work that people of color have to do is different, but it all is the work of healing. Like you’ve got to heal differently than how I’ve got to heal, and you have stuff that you have to deal with and face that will be different from what I have to deal with and face, but you got to heal and I got to heal. So what’s the cost that we’re paying for these strategies and tactics that we’re doing and when we come out at the end of our launches are looking at the end of a quarter in business, the bottom line looks great. But we are drained, we are emotionally fatigued, and we are wounded and don’t even know how we’ve wounded ourselves by paying this price over and over and over again. Yeah,

 

Emily

It’s so interesting you mentioned that about, at what cost? I actually had that written down as a question to ask you about how the launch can’t just be about the money and the business can’t just be about the money. The fact that we have to introduce more humanity into this humanity that should have always been there. The intentions may have been there, but a friend of mine brought up that she’s seen a meme floating around Instagram, where it’s like FYI stands for fuck your intentions.

 

Chelsea

Yeah.

 

Emily

Intentions are great, but where’s the meat and potatoes to go with it? It can’t just be about  talking about it, it has to actually be action steps. I would love for you to speak to as well the fact that this new way of launching, it doesn’t mean making less money. It means changing the way that we launch so that we’re all still feeding our bottom line. We’re all still  wealthier than ever, I want everyone to be able to make all the money that they want. But you can do that while also not triggering people and having humanity and introducing that into your business.

 

Chelsea

Yeah, absolutely. I think that there’s just such opportunity for us as human beings to grow and receive, because here’s the thing, we all know and online business and the very same people who teach these tactics and have no problem propagating them are the very same people who will look at you and tell you that your business won’t grow or your business will only grow as far as you grew up personally. We all know that, we all accept that as the truth in online business, because we’ve all experienced it. We all come into this space and like all of a sudden all these doubts and fears and confidence issues start to like, creep out of nowhere although crevices and corners of our hearts, little self doubt Gremlins and these little self criticism Gremlins and these little like perfectionist like all these Gremlins in the corners of our hearts, and we’re like, I didn’t even Where are you coming from?

 

We know that we have to deal with these things in order to see our businesses grow, right? So why is it then that we don’t recognize that a part of dealing with all of this internally is dealing with these issues too, and being able to heal ourselves so that when we look at another person we see human first, we see value first, regardless of any other experience that they claim as a part of their identity, because they are a person, they are worthy of safety, about knowledge, of the listening, of empathy, all of these things that we individually want as human beings. For me, it’s only natural that the more I take care of my inner world, the more my business will expand. The more I take care of and address and heal internally, the more my business will grow. When I talk about growing, I’m talking about the bottom line, I’m talking about profits, I’m talking about my team, I’m talking about my impact, I’m talking about all those things, because we know that this is true. We know that if we grow internally, it will be evidenced in our physical reality. We know that all of us individually, once you have a platform and you have one person looking to you, you are a leader and if we grow as leaders, if we learn to steward ourselves well, first to lead ourselves well first, then, of course, we’ll grow in following. Of course, we as leaders will have people following us and we, as leaders will also be following other people and be looking to other leaders, because I mean, that’s how leadership works. I think that there is absolutely no reason for us to fear loss and fear losing and fear Oh, am I not going to make enough money to run a business? No, we know that if we take care of this first the business will grow, it might require a bit of an explosion. It might require you to lose a little bit or a lot, if I’m honest, in my business, like falling apart, even before COVID, to be completely honest with you, like it was not pretty. I had to fire team members. That’s what we’re talking about like ugly, ugly, messy, because my internal world was a mess, and because I was resisting so much of the fulfillment and wealth that I desired for a variety of different reasons. When we resist our own healings, we actually shrink our business. So if I look at any of these gurus that are at the top of Online Business space, I’m looking at you like you don’t want my money? you don’t want to be able to have more impact? Deal with your racist crap, this is gonna grow your business. Come on, where are you at? Heal yourself, it is directly connected.

 

Emily

Yep. And I can’t stress that enough. I mean, we could go down a whole rabbit hole about the fact that some of these all White online like coaches that are online coaches at the very top of the industry, like very, very top a lot the majority of them have crumbled in the last few weeks. It has actually been shocking to me as a human who makes mistakes often, who will continue to make mistakes especially in regards to this work around unpacking White supremacy and becoming much more actively anti-racist. I have been shocked at the way some of them have handled it where I’ve actually thought to myself, it’s actually difficult for you to behave this badly. You’re actually having to put effort into behaving and showing up in a way that kind of demonstrates as though you have no humanity whatsoever. That’s that’s a really big part of this, and what’s even more interesting is that Rachel Rogers has been talking about this a lot, and I signed her pledge as well. I will reference on the show notes for anyone interested. She held this really amazing Town Hall, and there then she has a pledge that you can sign as a business owner and then they’re going to come back and check in on each business like every quarter I believe, and diversity and inclusion and this work this anti-racist work is no longer optional. What’s fascinating to me is that I’m seeing businesses who still have not come out and taken an active stance on this issue, on Black Lives Matter and on the revolution and all of this. They’re starting to suffer already, because people are sitting up and paying attention to it. There’s a contract that I’ve been negotiating back and forth for two or three months now with a company, what’s your affiliate for my podcasting course. They have not yet taken a stand And they were waiting for my response. I said, Well, what do you do? Where do you stand on black lives matter? And they said, Oh, yeah, we support it. We’re coming out with a statement soon. Like soon. We’re like three weeks into this. Where is your statement? I don’t understand. Honestly I don’t think I’m gonna be signing the contract because even if they come out with something later. At that point, I’m kind of like it’s too little too late and then it just becomes performative, too. I’m like, Oh, so now when you figured out that you can’t get it. With not coming out with a statement, and you didn’t put any risk into it whatsoever, now you decide that you have to, that’s not okay. People need to remember this like, but it can’t just be about the bottom line like, like you have to actually just be a really decent human and want to have equality for everyone and to have that humanity. If you don’t have that as a business owner, I don’t think you’re going to get very far as a business owner or as a human.

 

Chelsea

I will agree with you there, Emily. I have a friend who says that resisting is harder than doing the work itself. I’m just like a prime example. It’s actually harder at this time to resist doing the work then actually just saying, I’m messy, I’m not what I thought I was and I want to do this work, I want to show up. Actually we talked about doing this work as if it’s like, oh, it’s doing the work. It’s literally you just being a better human being, it’s not like, Oh, you have homework, it’s not like a coaching program. It’s like, How can I be a better human being and this is gonna be the journey of my life, or a part of the journey of my life step by step, day by day. What am I going to do differently? How am I gonna check myself? How am I gonna unlearn things and learn new ways of thinking that actually enable me to love and care and show up in the world? 

 

Rachel made this post, I think it was probably even yesterday or the day before on Instagram and she’s like, It’s not that complicated. It’s not complicated at all. It’s actually really simple. All of this resistance and for what? Do you think the old paradigm is coming back? Do you think the old way of doing things is coming back? Do you think that we’re all gonna be okay with you just like not saying anything, not owning your ish? Nah boo, it’s not gonna fly. It’s really not gonna fly.

 

Emily 

I was thinking about that post that Rachel put up before you even mentioned it. I think it was like, You Are Not Confused, and it’s so true. When you put it that way, she’s like, Listen, you’re entrepreneurs, you’ve built a business you have done this from the ground up. How is being a better human that difficult? It’s not that hard, and when we think about it that way, people are really kind of getting stuck in the weeds and stuff. We don’t have to make it so complicated, it is actually very, very simple. It’s a very simple process. It just involves having to unlearn some things. A lot of people are having a lot of resistance to it and at this point I’m more confused about why they’re having so much resistance to progressing. Why do you want to stay stuck?

 

Chelsea

Why would you not want to grow, especially when growth for you actually is a good thing. Like if you look back at all the times in your life where you grew, it wasn’t fun. It wasn’t easy. You didn’t enjoy it. But at the other end of it, it was pure, beautiful, it was glorious. You are thankful you’re an entrepreneur, I’m sure each and every single one of us have had that experience. Even if it’s just the moment of deciding to be fully in this, to leave your nine to five or to go against your parents and your friends’ wishes or to just take the risk and do the thing. Even that moment is growth. It’s uncomfortable. It’s messy, but at the end of it, there’s this beautiful thing that you’re like, you know what, I’m thankful I did this. It’s the same paradigm here. This is growth. Why would you want to resist that? 

 

Emily

Exactly. Oh, this is so good. So when it comes to launching, you had also put up a post kind of asking people where they’re at, gauging where people are, either about to launch, somebody who is mid-launch or somebody who has just come through the launch and they’re like, what the hell just happened? I feel like I got hit by a truck. So what advice do you have for each of those three stages

 

Chelsea

So stage number one, you are about to launch and the revolution popped off and now you’re like, ugh I gotta be actively anti-racist, what? I mean, please do not expect this from every Black woman, I just want to preface this with that disclaimer, but I am going to be a bit empathetic and say that, just from experience of recognizing my own places of agreement with racism, and even colonialism in my own life, and recognizing that, oh, it actually takes up time to work to undo these things. Then recognizing that I didn’t expect this to be in my life, I understand that it’s a lot and then on top of that, to say that Oh, yeah, remember you have a business to run, you have a team to pay or you have a family to feed or you have yourself to feed. This is real life. If you’re in a position where you are planning your launch, you’re now on hold, or you’re now thinking about getting back to launching and you’re just like, how do I do this? It’s probably the same advice for everyone at each stage. Even if you were in the middle of your launch, everything unfolded and now you’re just like, what do I do right now or you are at the end of your launch and you’re feeling drained, unable, completely empty, and on top of that, all of this now, I would recommend that you take a look at your strategy, your messaging, and see if there’s any place where it felt like there was resistance for you, maybe it was resistance that you pushed off, maybe it was resistance that you ignored, maybe you didn’t even recognize there was resistance and you might start asking this question and be like Chelsea there is no resistance where you’re talking about. But if you actually reconnect with yourself and get back into your skin, get back into your heart and your soul, you actually find resistance. They’re kind of like those little Gremlins that we were talking about minutes ago.

 

Emily

I love that visual by the way!

 

Chelsea

They come crawling out, when the time is right, they come crawling out when they sense that, oh, now’s the time for me to show my face. Now I can really show up and shine. But it’s also an opportunity for you to be like, ah, actually, we’re gonna just kindly help you not be so Gremlin anymore.

 

Emily

We’re going to show you to the door.

 

Chelsea

We’re either going to release you or we’re going to transform you. So I think as you’re thinking about where there was resistance in your strategies or your messaging, if you’re not feeling that resistance, I think you probably need to connect with yourself to listen to some of the things that the Black community is saying right now. Listen to some of the things that people of color are saying right now, to some of the things that even LGBTQ communities are saying right now. All of the communities that have not been the normalized standard, expose yourself to those voices, and then go back and look at your launch strategy and messaging, and see if you still don’t feel resistance. But the whole idea is to ask yourself, where was I feeling resistance and then begin to unpack where you felt like that resistance was coming from? Because here’s the thing, we are taught in so many ways that that resistance is coming from things like unhealthy money mindset, or things like unhealthy growth mindset, unhealthy mindsets in general. But it’s not just unhealthy mindsets that we have, it’s also unhealthy paradigms that we have learned, and that we have been taught that we get to unlearn and we get to release agreements with and so that’s a simple question. It’s a really great start. I don’t know Emily, if you want me to toss in that I’m also having some conversations like this.

 

Emily

Please! This is what I wanted to talk to you about as well. You are hosting circles and stuff and I just I love what you’re doing and I would love for you to to share that more, please.

 

Chelsea 

Okay, so if you are in a place where you’re like Chelsea, I’m not sure. Like how to do this, like by myself, or you’re looking for space, a safe space in which to do this, I will be hosting, and have been hosting a couple different circles for women of color and Black woman. If you are interested, you can DM me on Instagram and my handle is going to be in the show notes. But also, if you are a White woman and you’re like, Oh, I’m obviously not a person of color or so are you saying I can’t come to the circles? Well, no, not those circles. But I will be planning something for the White community very soon and so DM me as well and let me know you’re interested because the more people that let me know that they want to do this work, the more that I can host the space. So also you could totally work with me one on one. Let’s unpack this stuff, find your launch, we assess your launch and do it differently. Do it in a way that’s more aligned with where you want to be and more aligned with the person you want to become and the anti-racist paradigms that you want to begin to hold as your own. 

 

Emily 

I want to make sure that people absolutely connect with you. So your handle will be listed in the show notes as well, but just in case anybody wants to quickly whip out their phone and type it in right now. It’s The Launch Copy Coach, correct? 

 

Chelsea

Yep. 

 

Emily

I just think that’s awesome about really looking at doing some of this internal work in terms of what does everyone tell me to do and what have I been taught to do that maybe doesn’t feel good, even when you mentioned Russell Bronson’s book. I was also just thinking about some of the moments that I’ve had in the last week or two, looking at my bookshelf, or thinking about the books that I have bought in the past, almost exclusively business and personal development type books, almost exclusively White authors. I’m like, Damn, I have some work to do here, because I don’t want to only learn from one type. This is such a beautiful opportunity and this is something that I should have been doing all along, making a more active effort to seek out Black authors and people of color who are teaching things from maybe a slightly different perspective and that is going to help. When we all do more of that we’re all going to have a much more diverse, beautiful experience in the world, whether it’s as a business owner or as a human or just however, is going to make a really big difference. I don’t think that there is only one person out there who knows everything that there is to know about business or about anything else for that matter.

 

Chelsea

No, absolutely not.

 

Emily

That one person does not exist, we need  to learn from a variety. I can’t remember, I think that somebody famous probably said this, but I don’t remember who it is. It’s something about when you are taking information to take what you want and leave the rest. I think that that’s a really beautiful way of looking at it. Learning from really wide varied groups and it doesn’t mean that you’re going to take every single thing that that that every single person says as the law, but I can take what you want and take what resonates with you and then leave the rest behind and then that leaves space for you to pick up something else really amazing from someone different. That circle just continues. What are you most excited to see shift in either the industry or launching in general, what are you most excited to see shift and change and or what is already starting to shift and change that you’re most excited about.

 

Chelsea 

I think I am really, really looking forward to more of these conversations, and different ways of launching coming out of these launches that almost don’t seem like a launch, because they’re so simple, they’re so aligned. You can see that the person is having the time of their lives or you probably don’t even see the person at all because they’re off like having an amazing experience with their small community, and that’s their launch. ‘m excited to almost see less performance because a launch can feel so much like a performance. Now I’m on the stage and I’m doing the dance. Really performative and not productive, not moving you forward in so many ways. And it’s not a performance with heart, either. It’s a performance to measure up to the standards of success that we’ve set in the online business industry. I’m excited to see launches look less like launches, and launches that look less like the typical definition of a launch, and launches that look more like connection and fun and fulfillment, and real and messy, and it’s like it’s all welcome. You know, it’s not that it’s not perfect, but also, it’s not pressuring. I’m excited to talk to people and coach people into launches that feel messy, and might even look messy, but they’re having the best time. They’re having the best time serving their people and their people are getting so much from it, and they still feel like they can be with their family. And they’re not feeling pressured to try to make it perfect. They’re making the money, like the bank is evidence of how beautiful the launch was, in spite of not checking all the boxes. I’m excited to throw the checklist out. That’s what I’m excited for and I did want to say one more thing too about this. This might not be super applicable, so feel free to cut it.

 

Emily

Chelsea, you say whatever you want, and I’m not cutting anything. I’m not cutting a single word. 

 

Chelsea

What I wanted to say was I feel like I’m excited to see the conversation shift away from diversity and inclusion to like this, because I think there are a lot of conversations happening about diversity inclusion right now. Those conversations are important and necessary, but I don’t think that we have examined enough or even begun to examine enough, the strategies that we’re using and how those are not aligned and they’re not okay. They actually, in so many ways agree with racist paradigms that have been set up and White supremacist paradigms that have been set up. I want to see more people having these conversations. That’s what I’m most excited about. I’m excited about these launches that throw away the checklists, and don’t even look like launches. But then the person shares their a screenshot of their stripe account and you’re just like, Ah, yes, this person is making money and it doesn’t have to look like whatever I thought it had to look like and you know what, I’m going to follow that because I want to learn how they do it because that looks like actual freedom to me.

 

Emily

I love that you were saying that because that is my goal and even all the words that you were throwing up before but like fulfillment and joy, and I’m just real and messy are all the things that I try to embody just in general like in me in my everyday life, my brand, all of that. Full disclosure, I have always struggled with launches, because they have always felt very performative, like you mentioned, and almost fake, even though I try to come at it from a really genuine place, because that’s just kind of who I am. I’ve still struggled with that because it just has always felt off a little bit because I would be trying to use these strategies and stuff. So I am here for this because this all sounds amazing to me, I want to get in on this new style of watching, and just to have everyone win, like to be able to show up as a better human and have more money in the bank. Like, there is nothing that anyone who’s gonna argue that there’s something bad in there is not getting the full picture. 

 

Chelsea

Not getting the full picture at all. 

 

Emily

Is there anything else that you feel like we haven’t touched on that you want to mention before we wrap up?

 

Chelsea

Yeah, I think we touched on all the things. I’m just really excited to do this work man. I’m so excited for this to be completely honest, because for me, this has been such a long time coming. Personally, Emily, you just said that you have always struggled with volunteering and a while back I did a live with you. As you mentioned that we weren’t going to turn into a podcast episode, it was just not relevant anymore.

 

Emily

This is 2020, everything goes out of style six hours after.

 

Chelsea

Exactly this is our life now. On that live, I said that I’ve never had a launch that I actually enjoyed. That was fulfilling and successful. Never.

 

Emily

For you personally you mean?

 

Chelsea

Yeah, me personally. I’ve created that for a couple of my clients, for sure. But for me, personally, never. For me, there’s got to be more man, there has to be more and I’m not satisfied with this way of doing things anymore. As ugly and as brutal as it is, I think this time in history, quite frankly, is showing us the truth about the world and the truth about the things that we’ve agreed with and linked in all our lives. Because we can now see these truths, we now have an opportunity to say, Okay, this is where we’re at. There’s got to be more than this. What are we going to do to get to that more?  I’m excited to do this work for myself too. Not just for my people, but for me.

 

Emily

I can’t wait to shake up the status quo and to follow you leading this entire launching revolution along the way and work with this because I am just so excited. You’ve already sold me I’m like, okay, where do I sign up for this new type of launching? Give me a front row seat, please.

 

Chelsea

We’re making it happen. We’re gonna make it happen. I also want to say that and acknowledge that this is not a snap your fingers kind of process. I think that well, if I may add more to what I just said. We’re going to go on forever on this topic. But I think that in the online business space, one of the paradigms has been, you make it fast or you’re not enough. Like six figures in a year kind of thing. Or you actually haven’t done business well, like there’s something missing in your business, and you need to step it up. So we try to watch all these webinars and take all these trainings and buy all these coaching programs and masterminds and inner circle programs and all these things to try to get it faster, quicker, better now. In so many ways, we try to circumvent the process that is our internal growth and like we were saying earlier, it’s the internal growth that creates the physical reality that we want to live in. For me, this is not a snap your fingers quick, fast and dirty kind of thing. This is a process. This is growth and we actually get to savor it. Like we get to lavish in this every single step of the way. Because that’s the thing, when you actually embrace the mess, you can find so much beauty in it and so much fullness in it. Like, I am a mess right now, but I have never looked more gorgeous, and I am in it, and we are here. There’s so much connection also that you can find, because when you say you’re a mess, and I say I’m a mess, and we’re a mess together and we’re figuring it out, like what is better than that, this is humanity, to me. This is what it means to be human and show up for one another and what is business if not serving humanity in one another, and calling that humanity forward and higher in so many ways. I think it’s a brilliant opportunity we’re on the cusp of something great and amazing and I am so looking forward to it.

 

Emily

Well can I just say that, I mean maybe I’m biased because you and I have been friends now for like what a year I think something like I remember actually pacing around my very first place in Bali, when I first got to Bali like sending voice messages to you. It’s so funny. I mean again, maybe I’m biased but I would like to point out to anyone listening that there has not been a single, and this has never been what I’ve been about either, but there has never been a single scare tactic used in today’s episode. No fear mongering, no anything. All that I’m getting from this is like pure excitement for ripping apart a process that hasn’t been working well and coming up with something new. I am just completely sold on everything that you’re describing Chelsea, and this has been about nothing by humanity. There has not been a single fear mongering tactic used here or you know, placing responsibility where it shouldn’t be placed, nothing like that. Why can’t business be done this way? We’re doing it right now, and it’s magical. It’s amazing.

 

Chelsea

Doesn’t it feel so good? So good!

 

Emily

Yes! You’re talking about lavishing yourself I’m like, please I will give you the money. If  

you can use the word lavish and launching together I am in!

 

Chelsea

Me too friend, me too! 

 

Emily

Okay, so tell us a little bit about, I know you mentioned the circles and stuff that you’re holding for the Black community and women of colour, and that you are also coming up with something for the White community as well and people can DM you, but you also have an amazing podcast, so tell us about your podcast. 

 

Chelsea

Thank you for bringing that up, the podcast is Launching and Learning with Chelsea Wallace, and this is the space where we have these conversations, actually, and we’re going to have more of these conversations because for me, I’m not saying that the strategies and the checklists are like, horrible. I’m just saying that you got to know which ones you should be checking and which ones aren’t for you. So on that podcast, we explore the checklists and we also explore the inner world, the internal work, the lavish launching kind of deal that is going to create the physical reality of a launch that is profitable and fulfilling for you. If you want to have more of these conversations and hear more of what I have to say about these things, feel free to hop over to the podcast and take a listen on Apple and Spotify and Stitcher

 

Emily

Amazing, amazing. I had the pleasure of being on your podcast as well and you’re a fantastic host and you just do a really beautiful job and pour so much of yourself into it. Which is always a sign of a really great podcast in my, in my professional opinion as a podcast coach.

 

Chelsea

I appreciate that, and can I just take that opportunity to shout Emily out because she’s the only reason why that podcast exists. You can go listen to my coaching episode here on this podcast about how that actually came about. But yeah, you are amazing as a podcast host. 

 

Emily

Thank you so much. You’re so sweet. Honestly, and I was telling Chelsea before we got on with that episode has done so well because not only do you just radiate warmth and joy in everything that you do, so that just naturally brings people in anyway, but I think that people just also really resonated with so many of your questions that you had with where you were at at that stage, and just being a little bit unsure, and we talked through it and that was just that was just a blast. I just had so much fun and I swear every time Chelsea and I talk this might be the one of the first times that you and I have talked where I haven’t given you homework.

 

Chelsea

You know why I think you haven’t given me homework, because I haven’t done the last bit of homework that you gave me yet. 

 

Emily

Well I think that if you have homework you want to give me I’m always open to homework.

 

Chelsea

Friend, can I give you homework? 

 

Emily

Can you please? Please give me homework. I am pumped for this.

 

Chelsea

You know what I would love to see from you, Emily, I would love for you to share more about one of your most recent launches. What was your favourite moment and your least favourite moment, if you want to share that. I want to hear your favourite moments and least favourite moments and why, on one of your most recent launches because I know you’ve had a couple.

 

Emily 

Yes. Okay. I just wrote that down. So for anyone listening to this episode, I am basically releasing this podcast episode the same day that Chelsea and me are chatting because I’m like 2020 vibes. I can’t wait because everything is so fucking time sensitive. Honestly, people just need this information anyway. So I will do my homework right away, because then I’ll tie it in with this episode and launch stuff. So in the next two or three days, I will do my homework and I will tag you and I’m excited.

 

Chelsea

I love it. Let’s do it.

 

Emily

Okay, I have one final question then I promise I’ll let you go, because I can talk to you all day. I always wrap up any guest interview with asking if you could offer people one piece of advice on growing into the best possible version of themselves, what would it be? This doesn’t have to be launching specific. This can be about anything. It can be about launching or it can be about anything else.

 

Chelsea

It’s asking good questions. Ask the good questions. Ask the deep questions. Like the questions that you’re resisting, ask those questions.

 

Emily

That is a fantastic answer and it just resonates with me. It’s on so many levels, because like I love talking about resistance. Grit is actually one of my favourite things to talk about. 

I always tell people to ask better questions, like people will ask questions where I’m like, that’s not the question that you should be asking like, Hey, here’s your homework. Go ask a better question. 

 

Chelsea 

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. There’s nothing wrong with asking what, but an even better question is why? And when you can ask why and go deeper and deeper and deeper on that, why you know how they have that exercise where you do like your five levels why, there’s a reason why that exercise works. It’s because you’re asking and getting at the deep, deep things that are lying under there that you haven’t actually even discovered about yourself. Those questions are the good ones. Those are the good ones.

 

Emily

So good. Oh my gosh, Chelsea, this entire episode has just been absolute gold. You’re always a joy to chat with anyway, so that just amplifies the entire stream. I am so grateful for you taking the time, especially when this was sort of an extra hour because we’d already done the Instagram Live but yes, you are just a gem. Thank you so much I’m so appreciative and I know that everyone is going to just get so much out of this, I’m going to be going back and listening to this multiple times, because there’s so much in here that I want to make sure that I capture. So thank you so much.

 

Chelsea

Thank you, Emily. I’m gonna be going back and listening to this. I felt so good saying these things. Somebody needs to write this all down and like, turn it into my sales page or something because this sounds PS this is how you write copy, you get out a podcast episode and record yourself saying like dropping gems, and then you turn that into your copy. So thank you, Emily, for having me, this might be my sales page. 

 

Emily

I know what in that case, I don’t always have my assistant do transcriptions for interviews, because sometimes it can just take a really long time, but I feel like you and I are both gonna get so much out of this. I’ll just have her do the transcription for this case. I’ll send you the transcription.

 

Chelsea

Thank you.

 

Emily

Of course. So transcription is coming everybody, won’t be done the same day as this podcast is being recorded because I’m watching this whole process but I promise it will get a few days.

 

Chelsea

You’re a gem Emily, thank you so much for having me on.

 

Emily

Thank you so much. This is awesome.

Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. I’m so grateful you took the time and it means the absolute world to me. For any references in the episode and all show notes. Be sure to jump over to roomtogrowpodcast.com, and if this episode touched your heart, it would mean so much if you would take a quick second to hit subscribe, write a review and share on social media or with someone who really needs to hear today’s message. It makes such a difference to keep this podcast going so I can continue to bring you amazing content and absolutely incredible guests. Be sure to tag me on Instagram over @emilygoughcoach so that I can thank you in real time for listening and connect with you. We’re back every Tuesday and Thursday with brand new episodes and I’m looking forward to growing with you!

 

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